TALK TIME india’s energy options | anil kakodkar

http://www.gfilesindia.com TALK TIME | india’s energy options | anil kakodkar ‘Dr Bhabha’s vision would have solved India’s energy shortage’Anil Kakodkar is an eminent Indian nuclear scientist and mechanical engineer. He was the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission of India and the Secretary to the Government of India, Department of Atomic Energy. Before leading India’s nuclear programme, he was the Director of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Trombay, from 1996- 2000. He was awarded the Padma Vibhushan, India’s second highest civilian honour, on January 26, 2009. Interviewed by DINESH LAKHANPAL gfiles : On having been chairman of the Department of Atomic Energy.... Anil Kakodkar : Actually, in the Department of Atomic Energy we are all Team DAE and I think all of us are kind of wedded to a common mission. gfiles : Any motivations to join the then Atomic Energy Establishment? AK : I passed out from VJTI as a mechanical engineer in 1963 and joined the Atomic Energy Establishment in 1964. In those days mechanical engineers were in great demand. All of us had appointment letters from very important companies, even without having to appear for an interview. I had a full file of appointment letters, but the industry scene at that time was not very exciting for me whereas in the Atomic Energy Establishment in Trombay it was clear that one would be in a position to do several new things. gfiles : What was your first interaction with Dr Homi J Bhabha like?  AK : The atomic energy programme was quite small in those days. I was already in the seventh batch and the batch was quite big, maybe around a hundred people. We all somehow felt that we were too many compared to the size of the programme, so once we asked him about that. He said, “Why are you worried?” We said that we just wanted to know whether this programme would be large enough to provide interesting activities for all of us. Somebody asked, “Aren’t you spending too much for a kind of undefined activity?” He said, “You don’t worry about all that. You do your R&D, your research, whatever and even after 10, 15, 20 or 30 batches, if one or two of you turn out to be Nobel laureates, all of my money would have been returned.” gfiles : What were your priorities when you took over as Chairman, DAE? AK : The three-stage programme chalked out by Bhabha was well on track and I think that is still valid today. I had been working on nuclear power, so I had my own insights into what needed to be done further. Over time, there were some drifts but I straightaway started off with a sort of re-calibration in terms of where the programme was and what was needed to move on. There are a few DAE publications charting what we need to do in the area of nuclear power, in development of technologies required for nuclear power and then we got into collective mode to move forward and it’s going on since. gfiles : What caused drift? AK : I think it had happened without people being conscious of it. It happened because the rest of the country itself is like that. Bhabha created something which was different from the rest of the country and maybe as we went along it was not emphasized enough...so we were sort of getting aligned with what had happened in the rest of the country. gfiles : What could be the factors? AK : As the system becomes bigger you have to also be conscious about your peer group and see what is happening in the rest of the country, whether you are on a par or lagging or leading. That is also true in development. For example, if you are constructing a nuclear power project, there will be comparisons. You are spending so much money, you are producing electricity at such and such rate, somebody is producing a thermal power station at a much cheaper rate – so you get driven by those kinds of comparisons and you want to win the competition which is important because without that you don’t progress. We want to be the best in the world. We cannot be unless such segments are interconnected. ‘The consumer is always going to have a short-term focus. He will say, while buying something, “Am I getting the best?” ’ gfiles : Would you blame market forces, consumerism? AK : Well, yes and no. The consumer is always going to have a short-term focus. He will say, while buying something, “Am I getting the best?” There was a time when Indian households were full of Indian products, refrigerators or kitchen appliances and so on. And then we went into this liberalized system and I think many of those products have vanished. There could be many reasons. But the fact is that in technological terms the Indian products did not compete. Because they were based on technology transfer. Somebody got into a technology transfer arrangement with somebody else abroad and started making those products. Now when there is liberalization or an open market, people who have better technologies are not going to give them to you. They will straightaway market it here. So the better technologies came in and so-called Indian brands got wiped out. By copying technology, you can at best be a good second. You can never be first. Bhabha had understood this, that is why he emphasized a particular culture. And it is important that we get back those elements. It will be good for us in the long run. gfiles : Can you throw some light on what Dr Bhabha visualized 65 years ago and where we stand today? AK : I think this has been a continuous process. There are several people who have contributed to carrying it forward. For example, the pressurized heavy water reactor technology. Today, our PHWRs perform with global standards. Some of our reactors have been judged the best in the world. They have won global awards. Some of our people who operate the reactors have won global awards. That has happened because this is a road to excellence but it is sustained work. While this has happened, we have also gone through rough weather. Our reactors had a lot of technological problems. Operational excellence had to be achieved. The same thing is true of the fast reactors. We are able to have them today because the Indira Gandhi Centre worked on it for 25 years. The Centre was set up in Sarabhai’s time. There was this emphasis on this 500 megawatt reactor, getting into massive development, that came in during Ramanna’s time. Compared to the time-frame in his mind, there has been a delay although we are very proud to have mastered those technologies. We have shown global excellence in those technologies but things have got delayed. But the energy requirements today are far more acute compared to what they were earlier or even what we would have visualized for today 10 or 15 years ago. So there is a much greater level of urgency today. ‘If the three-stage nuclear programme had gone on at the rate Bhabha visualized, the energy shortage we see would have been bridged.’ The starting base is by external inputs and because we have developed this technology on our own, it will be very easy for us to assimilate whatever comes from outside. It will also be very easy for us to build up a multiplier. After all, in a three-stage programme, there is a multiplier. There is one 10,000 megawatt PHWR that can become a 500,000 MW fast reactor without any additional uranium, being required. gfiles : How is the nuclear treaty going to help the weakest in our society? AK : If the three-stage nuclear programme had gone on at the rate at which Bhabha had visualized it, then the energy shortage we see today would have been bridged because the multiplier would already have been in force. In 40 or 50 years from now, we will see much higher shortages. Even if we use every bit of energy resource that you can have from within the country and are able to exploit it to the fullest potential in the quickest possible time, we will still be left with a huge energy deficit by 2050. gfiles : We might have to import?  AK : Of course. To meet that shortage, you will have to import energy. In terms of coal, we will have to import 1.6 billion tons annually. It will choke all our ports, railway lines, everything. It is not possible. First of all, where will you get that kind of money? Even if you say it is an economic activity, the country will find the money, it is very difficult to provide matching infrastructure. On the other hand, we can get a certain quantity of uranium, set up some additional thermal reactors, allow multiplication through fast reactors. Again, we should work with the same vision as Bhabha, we should be able to realize all this in the kind of time-frame he visualized. See, we were dependent for food at one stage. Thanks to the Green Revolution, food security is there. Similarly, this will make India energy independent. And we are doing this without changing one bit our autonomy regarding R&D. gfiles : The architect of the Green Revolution, Prof MS Swaminathan, has been advocating a renewed approach – from Green to Evergreen Revolution. Does the energy cycle also need the same approach? AK : It is like that. We often use the term “energy security”. It means, even in troubled times the country should be able to provide for its energy requirements for a reasonable period. Energy independence is that you no longer have to worry about energy coming from anywhere. Perpetual energy security, that is what I mean. gfiles : The number of young men and women opting for science as a career has come down and the country has failed to attract the best talent.  AK : We need scientists who can engineer India and you need engineers who understand this new science which is not taught in engineering colleges. This is also a major challenge for our education system. As for the atomic energy programme, it is very important that a student, while he or she is going through the education programme, gets a holistic experience. Students should be able to build their own experimental set-ups. They must know how much activity goes into a workshop so that they understand what it means in terms of making that set-up. On a larger scale, they should be able to understand the science and the technology behind it and, if it comes to that, they should be able to engineer it themselves. There is a third component in education. Students must be exposed to the problems of this country. When students are oblivious of the problems of their own country or society, there remains a big gap in their education. gfiles : Can the recent bubble burst of the IT industry and the recession be used to fill the gaps you spoke of? AK : Probably, but we need to be more proactive than that. We should be able to create an ambience where a student is learning and in a neighbouring room a Nobel laureate is carrying out some research and on the other side is a room where some technology is being developed which the whole world is vying for. On the third side, there is some great rural extension programme going on. It enriches the whole ambience if all of it is done together. The problem is, you must maintain excellence in all. A little dilution of excellence is a disaster we can’t allow. It is eminently possible to do this while maintaining excellence in each area. In the DAE, we have managed to do so to quite an extent.